Post by Admin on May 19, 2014 5:12:07 GMT
The alternative prison option.
This site was set up so members of the public could comment on the option to the current prison system. Hopefully it will create sufficient debate to get noticed in the wider public domain and then Government.
If not then someone else should come up with a better idea as the current system is not working.
In 1960 the UK prison populations stood according to news paper reports at around 27,000. By1990 this had risen to in the UK to 45,000 and only this year in 2014 according to the Daily Mail the population in UK prisons had risen to 85, 388.
Why some ask, well as the papers will tell you it’s because of the soft touch that prisons have become and the liberal policies of previous governments listening too much to the help the prisoner’s brigades.
All this has happened because sentences have been waters down, not toughened and repeated offenders are let off lightly. Only recently a prisoner who was under threat of being sent back to Italy objected saying the Italian prisons were inferior to the UK ones which were like a holiday camp.
Some will say hang em high if they keep reoffending, but unfortunately the legal constitution of the UK will not allow this.
There has to be a much tougher solution to get the career criminals to know that if they continue to carry out crimes then the alternative to prison is not very attractive and permanent.
Now every criminal should have the opportunity to address their wrongs and some will do this by becoming accepted members of the community again holding the guilt they have of the crime they committed. And so they should. We are not all little angels. But as long as they don't intend to continue in their criminal activities then we should allow forgiveness
But there are increasing numbers who have a carefree attitude knowing the establishment can do nothing and they have no fear of the police or the courts knowing any sentence is likely to be light and prison sentance a cushy stay.
So is there an alternative. Given we are part of the EEC and pledged to never to bring in any death penalties for serious crime any such thought of this idea is not even going to be considered.
So is there an alternative?
The basic constitution of the UK is that all the land in the UK is owned by the Crown over which the Government has the responsibility to manage the land and its people. You may think you own the freehold to your property, but all that allows you to do is have access to the land and build in the land. The government is within its rights to take the land back subject to restrictions in law.
In the earlier centuries prisoners were sent to penal colonies, unfortunately given the Crown has no spare islands this option is not even available today. Or is it. There is nothing to stop the Crown relinquishing a section of the UK so that it is not under the control of the Crown or the Government. If the UK has no control over this section of land then any laws applying to the UK or the EC would not apply either. It could make its own constitution, laws etc etc. In effect a separate country. Let’s say a mile or two square which should hold easily 5000 lawless criminal types.
So what would happen is that the square mile or two of land would then be a separate state surrounded by the UK. Surround this with a robust and secure security wall and fencing system and have it patrolled by dogs and professional armed guards. After all the citizens of this new state are not UK citizens any longer so are illegal’s from an unrecognised state who could be shot.
If you have guessed where this is going well done. It’s an open prison into which criminals are put and they can do as they wish. The separate state, let’s call it ‘Helland County’, would not be governed by the UK, but by the occupants of the state itself in effect a penal colony. But would that not be illegal. Probably not, but I'm sure the legal beagles would argue otherwise.
By making this land it an independent state through which its residents may not pass through the UK as we would not recognise the state, it does not stop it being recognised by any other country in the world and those countries could set up a consulate in that state. After all even small states in Europe such as Monaco, Lichtenstein, San Marino and Andorra have foreign consulates. As it is a separate state there would be no restrictions on access from the UK to any citizen foolish enough to want to enter and I’m sure there will be those do gooders daft enough to go in and try to preach matters of good will and repenting. But let’s be honest which counties of the world are going to send staff into a lawless country full of the worst type of criminals with no constitution and then issue those residents with passports to their state so they can travel to that country and reside there. Pigs will fly first.
Now you can’t just have an closed state and not supply them with anything, so to appease the ‘oh you shouldn’t brigade’, Helland County would have a basic township built for 5000, I doubt the numbers would get any larger as it is likely the nutters would end up culling each other. If it does we supply the basic building materials to expand their construction empire or more probably throw at each other. The state would be supplied with water mains, and electric power. Solid fuel, food, medical and building supplies would be sent in via a remote transport system on some sort of track line basis. Given the amount of food and clothing we throw away, feeding and clothing the residents of Helland County would not be a problem and supplying water and electricity would not be a high cost. If the residents of this state want to destroy the assets they have that is their choice. As for medical supplies remember some criminals are medical trained and would end up running the cottage hospital. There are a few doing life now.
So who do we send in there? Well there has to be a system that recognises the severity of the crime and the frequency of the crimes and the options for someone committing a crime to pay back to society. That would only be fair. Hold your hand up if you have never committed any single act of criminal activity no matter how trivial or small in your entire life. Mary and Jesus put your hands down.
I would suggest something like this. I’ll call it the 'Criminal Licensing Scheme'.
Every citizen would then have a criminal licence even illegals and foreigners caught in the UK Those having never committed a criminal offence would not have a license opened. Every crime depending on its severity would be subject to a number of points similar to points on a driving license and foreigners and illegal's would have their past criminal records assessed for the equivalent points to stop tourism criminal activity. Simple shop lifting may be carrying 1 point, burglary 5 points; Robbery with violence 20 points and pre meditated murder 60points.
So how does the points system work?
Every time a person commits a crime and is charged and found guilty not only will the current judicial system continue to run and the punishments be applied, the criminal would have a number of points added to his license.
Once a set number of points is reached the criminal is then sentenced to a set period of custodial sentence without remission, the more points the longer the sentence to run on top of any other punishments including custodial sentences handed out by the courts. Here is an example.
10 points = 2 weeks in jail
20 points = 4 weeks in jail
30 points = 6 months in jail
40 points = 12 months in jail
50 points = 3 years in jail
60 points = 5 years in jail
For those not receiving other custodial sentences having reached 10 or 20 points would have to ask for holiday time off work to serve their time which might be an incentive not to indulge in criminal acts again.
Over 60 points and you sent to jail for a 5 year term and if after 5 years there is no further evidence to support an application you are innocent of the crime you are removed as a UK citizen and sent to Helland County never to return to the UK. To get over 60 points would not take long for a career criminal or those who have committed numerous serious offences to accumulate.
But there has to be in place a system to stop someone from deliberately setting someone up or maybe of the Police framing someone to get them out of the way. In this case I would suggest that the person or persons who deliberately intend to frame someone and they are discovered to have committed such an act would then have the licensing points for that crime added to their own license and the additional points added for committing the crime of framing someone as well as 50% of the criminals points.
What about men and women or the criminally insane, No problem send the lot in who cares, they never cared about the society they were living in before. Ah but they could breed and that would be unfair on the children born there. No problem all convicts sentenced to be incarcerated into Helland County will for men be given a vasectomy and for women have their ovaries removed so they can’t breed. What they get up to in there is not the Governments business as they won’t have control over the state.
Now everyone should have the chance if they commit a crime of repaying that debt to society and the licensing scheme would allow the person with points on their license to work these off by doing work for the community or charity with each point being a set number of hours. Obviously the higher the points, the more hours you would have to undertake to get those points reduced or removed. But to make the more serious crimes or repeated felons who accumulate a high number of points repay their debt then the higher the scale on the points the more hours those points are worth.
E.G.
1 to 10 points would require a person to work for 30 hours of community or charity work to get each point taken off their license. 10 points = 300 hours
11 to 20 points then each point would require 50 hours of work
21 to 30 points then each point would require 70 hours of work
31 to 40 points then each point would require 100 hours of work
41 to 50 points then each point would require 150 hours of work
51 to 60 points then each point would require 200 hours of work
So someone with 5 points would be required to do 150 hours of work to have all the points on the license removed. But someone with 25 points would require to work (10 x 30 =300 + 10 x 50 = 500 5 x 70 = 350) 1150 hours of charity or community type work to remove all their points on their license. If they did 10 hours a week it would take someone with 25 points 115 weeks to repay your debt or 2 years.
Someone with 45 points on their license would need to do 3250 hours at 10 hours a week would take them 325 weeks to pay off or 6 years
Someone with 60 points would take 11.5 years to pay off the debt at 10 hours a week and if they chose not to pay off the debt would know that 1 more point and they know where they are heading.
So where is the incentive? Well the police will tell you the majority of crime is committed by a minority of criminals who would in a short space of time accumulate sufficient points to be removed from the UK and put into Helland County where they can remain for their following years in a state of lawlessness without any interference from legal authorities and stop causing havoc amongst the law abiding citizens of the UK.
They could of course leave the country and reside elsewhere knowing that it is unlikely they would be extradited to the UK under those Human Rights lot so could remain in the foreign state committing all the crimes they committed in the UK knowing they would be under the soft touch of those countries legal systems. But it would not take long for those countries residents to say hey, “How come all the scum and low life’s are leaving the UK to live here and commit crimes” and that would lead to where. One Guess they would all want a similar open prison.
So in short here is the alternative to the softly softly approach?
The crown releases land 1 to 2 mile square over which it and government have no control.
Within it is built a township for 5000 and supplied with electric and water and supplied with food, clothing, solid fuel, building materials and medical supplies
This is surrounded by a secure perimeter guarded by dogs and armed guards.
It has a boarder control to allow visitors in, God help them. Keeps the do gooder brigade happy But it does not allow resident criminals out. It is unlikely that any other country would recognise the state and set up a consulate to issue passports.
Crimes are given points and the more points you accumulate the more chance you have of ending up in Helland County.
Criminals could if they wanted to repay the debt, undertake community or charity work doing a set number of hours for each accumulated point and remove the debt. I doubt the serious criminal elements would bother anyway so it wouldn’t take long before we are rid of them by sending them to Helland County or they leave the UK knowing where they are likely to end up.
Criminals sent in are surgically operated on to prevent them breeding.
Result is the charities and the community benefits from all those minor criminals wanting to remove their points or the more serious elements wanting to mend their ways. The other result is perpetual and serious criminals would be removed from society either by sending them to Helland County or they leave the UK and we would not have the expense of looking after their needs other than ensuring they are kept inside. As for their welfare, they chose to go in, they can sort that out for themselves.
Other alternative is if any country disagrees, ask them to furnish the criminal with a passport of the country complaining and we will pay the air-fare.
Anyone got a better suggestion?
This site was set up so members of the public could comment on the option to the current prison system. Hopefully it will create sufficient debate to get noticed in the wider public domain and then Government.
If not then someone else should come up with a better idea as the current system is not working.
In 1960 the UK prison populations stood according to news paper reports at around 27,000. By1990 this had risen to in the UK to 45,000 and only this year in 2014 according to the Daily Mail the population in UK prisons had risen to 85, 388.
Why some ask, well as the papers will tell you it’s because of the soft touch that prisons have become and the liberal policies of previous governments listening too much to the help the prisoner’s brigades.
All this has happened because sentences have been waters down, not toughened and repeated offenders are let off lightly. Only recently a prisoner who was under threat of being sent back to Italy objected saying the Italian prisons were inferior to the UK ones which were like a holiday camp.
Some will say hang em high if they keep reoffending, but unfortunately the legal constitution of the UK will not allow this.
There has to be a much tougher solution to get the career criminals to know that if they continue to carry out crimes then the alternative to prison is not very attractive and permanent.
Now every criminal should have the opportunity to address their wrongs and some will do this by becoming accepted members of the community again holding the guilt they have of the crime they committed. And so they should. We are not all little angels. But as long as they don't intend to continue in their criminal activities then we should allow forgiveness
But there are increasing numbers who have a carefree attitude knowing the establishment can do nothing and they have no fear of the police or the courts knowing any sentence is likely to be light and prison sentance a cushy stay.
So is there an alternative. Given we are part of the EEC and pledged to never to bring in any death penalties for serious crime any such thought of this idea is not even going to be considered.
So is there an alternative?
The basic constitution of the UK is that all the land in the UK is owned by the Crown over which the Government has the responsibility to manage the land and its people. You may think you own the freehold to your property, but all that allows you to do is have access to the land and build in the land. The government is within its rights to take the land back subject to restrictions in law.
In the earlier centuries prisoners were sent to penal colonies, unfortunately given the Crown has no spare islands this option is not even available today. Or is it. There is nothing to stop the Crown relinquishing a section of the UK so that it is not under the control of the Crown or the Government. If the UK has no control over this section of land then any laws applying to the UK or the EC would not apply either. It could make its own constitution, laws etc etc. In effect a separate country. Let’s say a mile or two square which should hold easily 5000 lawless criminal types.
So what would happen is that the square mile or two of land would then be a separate state surrounded by the UK. Surround this with a robust and secure security wall and fencing system and have it patrolled by dogs and professional armed guards. After all the citizens of this new state are not UK citizens any longer so are illegal’s from an unrecognised state who could be shot.
If you have guessed where this is going well done. It’s an open prison into which criminals are put and they can do as they wish. The separate state, let’s call it ‘Helland County’, would not be governed by the UK, but by the occupants of the state itself in effect a penal colony. But would that not be illegal. Probably not, but I'm sure the legal beagles would argue otherwise.
By making this land it an independent state through which its residents may not pass through the UK as we would not recognise the state, it does not stop it being recognised by any other country in the world and those countries could set up a consulate in that state. After all even small states in Europe such as Monaco, Lichtenstein, San Marino and Andorra have foreign consulates. As it is a separate state there would be no restrictions on access from the UK to any citizen foolish enough to want to enter and I’m sure there will be those do gooders daft enough to go in and try to preach matters of good will and repenting. But let’s be honest which counties of the world are going to send staff into a lawless country full of the worst type of criminals with no constitution and then issue those residents with passports to their state so they can travel to that country and reside there. Pigs will fly first.
Now you can’t just have an closed state and not supply them with anything, so to appease the ‘oh you shouldn’t brigade’, Helland County would have a basic township built for 5000, I doubt the numbers would get any larger as it is likely the nutters would end up culling each other. If it does we supply the basic building materials to expand their construction empire or more probably throw at each other. The state would be supplied with water mains, and electric power. Solid fuel, food, medical and building supplies would be sent in via a remote transport system on some sort of track line basis. Given the amount of food and clothing we throw away, feeding and clothing the residents of Helland County would not be a problem and supplying water and electricity would not be a high cost. If the residents of this state want to destroy the assets they have that is their choice. As for medical supplies remember some criminals are medical trained and would end up running the cottage hospital. There are a few doing life now.
So who do we send in there? Well there has to be a system that recognises the severity of the crime and the frequency of the crimes and the options for someone committing a crime to pay back to society. That would only be fair. Hold your hand up if you have never committed any single act of criminal activity no matter how trivial or small in your entire life. Mary and Jesus put your hands down.
I would suggest something like this. I’ll call it the 'Criminal Licensing Scheme'.
Every citizen would then have a criminal licence even illegals and foreigners caught in the UK Those having never committed a criminal offence would not have a license opened. Every crime depending on its severity would be subject to a number of points similar to points on a driving license and foreigners and illegal's would have their past criminal records assessed for the equivalent points to stop tourism criminal activity. Simple shop lifting may be carrying 1 point, burglary 5 points; Robbery with violence 20 points and pre meditated murder 60points.
So how does the points system work?
Every time a person commits a crime and is charged and found guilty not only will the current judicial system continue to run and the punishments be applied, the criminal would have a number of points added to his license.
Once a set number of points is reached the criminal is then sentenced to a set period of custodial sentence without remission, the more points the longer the sentence to run on top of any other punishments including custodial sentences handed out by the courts. Here is an example.
10 points = 2 weeks in jail
20 points = 4 weeks in jail
30 points = 6 months in jail
40 points = 12 months in jail
50 points = 3 years in jail
60 points = 5 years in jail
For those not receiving other custodial sentences having reached 10 or 20 points would have to ask for holiday time off work to serve their time which might be an incentive not to indulge in criminal acts again.
Over 60 points and you sent to jail for a 5 year term and if after 5 years there is no further evidence to support an application you are innocent of the crime you are removed as a UK citizen and sent to Helland County never to return to the UK. To get over 60 points would not take long for a career criminal or those who have committed numerous serious offences to accumulate.
But there has to be in place a system to stop someone from deliberately setting someone up or maybe of the Police framing someone to get them out of the way. In this case I would suggest that the person or persons who deliberately intend to frame someone and they are discovered to have committed such an act would then have the licensing points for that crime added to their own license and the additional points added for committing the crime of framing someone as well as 50% of the criminals points.
What about men and women or the criminally insane, No problem send the lot in who cares, they never cared about the society they were living in before. Ah but they could breed and that would be unfair on the children born there. No problem all convicts sentenced to be incarcerated into Helland County will for men be given a vasectomy and for women have their ovaries removed so they can’t breed. What they get up to in there is not the Governments business as they won’t have control over the state.
Now everyone should have the chance if they commit a crime of repaying that debt to society and the licensing scheme would allow the person with points on their license to work these off by doing work for the community or charity with each point being a set number of hours. Obviously the higher the points, the more hours you would have to undertake to get those points reduced or removed. But to make the more serious crimes or repeated felons who accumulate a high number of points repay their debt then the higher the scale on the points the more hours those points are worth.
E.G.
1 to 10 points would require a person to work for 30 hours of community or charity work to get each point taken off their license. 10 points = 300 hours
11 to 20 points then each point would require 50 hours of work
21 to 30 points then each point would require 70 hours of work
31 to 40 points then each point would require 100 hours of work
41 to 50 points then each point would require 150 hours of work
51 to 60 points then each point would require 200 hours of work
So someone with 5 points would be required to do 150 hours of work to have all the points on the license removed. But someone with 25 points would require to work (10 x 30 =300 + 10 x 50 = 500 5 x 70 = 350) 1150 hours of charity or community type work to remove all their points on their license. If they did 10 hours a week it would take someone with 25 points 115 weeks to repay your debt or 2 years.
Someone with 45 points on their license would need to do 3250 hours at 10 hours a week would take them 325 weeks to pay off or 6 years
Someone with 60 points would take 11.5 years to pay off the debt at 10 hours a week and if they chose not to pay off the debt would know that 1 more point and they know where they are heading.
So where is the incentive? Well the police will tell you the majority of crime is committed by a minority of criminals who would in a short space of time accumulate sufficient points to be removed from the UK and put into Helland County where they can remain for their following years in a state of lawlessness without any interference from legal authorities and stop causing havoc amongst the law abiding citizens of the UK.
They could of course leave the country and reside elsewhere knowing that it is unlikely they would be extradited to the UK under those Human Rights lot so could remain in the foreign state committing all the crimes they committed in the UK knowing they would be under the soft touch of those countries legal systems. But it would not take long for those countries residents to say hey, “How come all the scum and low life’s are leaving the UK to live here and commit crimes” and that would lead to where. One Guess they would all want a similar open prison.
So in short here is the alternative to the softly softly approach?
The crown releases land 1 to 2 mile square over which it and government have no control.
Within it is built a township for 5000 and supplied with electric and water and supplied with food, clothing, solid fuel, building materials and medical supplies
This is surrounded by a secure perimeter guarded by dogs and armed guards.
It has a boarder control to allow visitors in, God help them. Keeps the do gooder brigade happy But it does not allow resident criminals out. It is unlikely that any other country would recognise the state and set up a consulate to issue passports.
Crimes are given points and the more points you accumulate the more chance you have of ending up in Helland County.
Criminals could if they wanted to repay the debt, undertake community or charity work doing a set number of hours for each accumulated point and remove the debt. I doubt the serious criminal elements would bother anyway so it wouldn’t take long before we are rid of them by sending them to Helland County or they leave the UK knowing where they are likely to end up.
Criminals sent in are surgically operated on to prevent them breeding.
Result is the charities and the community benefits from all those minor criminals wanting to remove their points or the more serious elements wanting to mend their ways. The other result is perpetual and serious criminals would be removed from society either by sending them to Helland County or they leave the UK and we would not have the expense of looking after their needs other than ensuring they are kept inside. As for their welfare, they chose to go in, they can sort that out for themselves.
Other alternative is if any country disagrees, ask them to furnish the criminal with a passport of the country complaining and we will pay the air-fare.
Anyone got a better suggestion?